Board index ‹ Government and Politics

[Dr. John Crandall]

America was not founded as a "Christian nation." The Founders were largely members of orthodox Christian churches, to be sure, but they clearly canonized a secular government. "Freedom of religion" in the 1st Amendment does not apply only to Christians. Any and all citizens have the right to exercise their religion. Early in the infancy of this nation, there was a debate specifically about Muslims. Both Jefferson and Franklin firmly rejected any discrimination of them and advocated their freedom to practice there faith. Jim Walton, you say that America was founded "on biblical principles..." There is a very sharp departure from biblical principles to keep women from voting as citizens, for instance, and biblical principles. The same goes for the advocacy of slavery. To this day, there are bigoted white nationalists masking as pastors, far and away in violation of biblical principles. We should not mythologize our founding as if it is biblical Christianity.

[jimwalton]

Dr. John Crandall, thank you for your comments. I agree that the Founders founded a secular nation, not an ecclesiastical one, but it was still founded on Christian principles. The 1853-54 House & Senate Judiciary Committee reported, "...[Religion] must be considered as the foundation upon which the whole structure rests. … In this age there can be no substitute for Christianity; that, in its general principles, is the great conservative element on which we must rely for the purity and permanence of free institutions. That was the religion of the founders of the republic, and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants."

Agreed that the 1st amendment applied to Hindus and Muslims as well.

Agreed about the hypocrisy of the Founders following biblical principles but keeping women and blacks from voting, and participating in slavery.

"there are bigoted white nationalists masking as pastors." I'd like to hear more about this.

[Washington]

This is an interesting discussion. yes America was founded on the principles of religious freedom and I love her and it did not fully understand what religious freedom meant. a word misogynistic and slaveholders people who reportedly out for their own best interest. if you look at the history of America, United States, you will find it replete with instances of killing, the indigenous Indians those who did not worship like they did and separating families During the period of slavery. we almost remember that this was not just a southern philosophy it was awesome in the Northeast gradually gave up legal slavery but did very little to ended until 1861.

[Jimmy McR]

America was never a Christian nation. They destroyed the native Americans, who had a wonderful history here for thousands of years. All kinds of people came here, including hardened criminals and Irish slaves. Later we brought more and more people from Africa. Christian America s a myth.

[Forfer]

AMERICA's BIBLE-based CHRISTIAN REPUBLIC!

"The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a REPUBLICAN form of government" [Art4-Sec4:Constitution]

"& to the REPUBLIC for which it stands" [Pledge of Allegiance]

"Our citizens should early understand that THE genuine SOURCE of correct REPUBLICAN principles is the BIBLE" - Founders

"The ONLY means of establishing & perpetuating our REPUBLICAN form of government is by the universal education of our youth in the principles of CHRISTIANITY by means of the BIBLE" - Founders

"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, & it is the DUTY as well as the privilege & interest of our CHRISTIAN NATION to select & prefer CHRISTIANS for their rulers" - Founders

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"A simple DEMOCRACY is the DEVIL'S own government" - Founders Prov. 14:12; 21:2

[Dr. John Crandall]

Forfer: Please cite your sources for you "quotes." Please clarify what you mean by "REPUBLICAN for of government." It is unclear to me whether you are conflating that with the Republican Party as opposed to the Democratic Party. If you are, and you wish to make the point that it is the "DEVIL'S own government," I challenge you to offer that proof.

[Audrey]

The United States Supreme Court has ruled 4 times that America is a Christian Nation. In one of those cases in 1892, the Supreme Court unanimously found America to be a Christian Nation based upon 66 authorities: “From the discovery of this continent to the present hour, there is a single voice making this affirmation…we find everywhere a clear recognition of the same truth…this is a Christian nation" -Justice Brewer writing, Holy Trinity vs. U.S., 403 U.S.465, (1892).

William Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws of England in 1765 were extremely influential in shaping the legal principles and philosophy of government and law for the 56 signers of The Declaration of Independence: “Upon these two foundations, the law of nature and the law of revelation (the Bible), depend all human laws.”

Great resource can be found at http://www.wallbuilders.com where the founder, David Barton, owns the largest collection of historical documents in the country.

[Vertner]

Christian nations don't create anti-biblical policy!

[jimwalton]

Vertner, they always do. Whenever Christian people get involved in worldly powers, the struggles of power, good, national interest, public opinion, economics, class, and justice create many points of compromise and even some of problems—especially when that government is not seeking to be a theocracy (on the one hand) and is mandating a separation of church and state on the other. The Founding Fathers were mostly Christian people, but they were governing a pluralistic nation with a mixed ethnic, political, and social history in a grand civic experiment: a republic governed "of the people, by the people, and for the people." It's inevitable that some anti-biblical policy will be created, but that doesn't mean its foundations weren't in Christian principles, based in biblical concepts, and run by Christian people. All human structures are ultimately unfair to someone, and the anti-biblical parts of our history are not only unfortunate but at times tragic. We work towards a just and moral society, but the restraints of governing a mixed people, of ruling in a godly fashion but still maintaining the separation of church and state, and being subject to the popular vote will inevitably yield some unfortunate results at times. But does this mean the nation is not founded on biblical principles? I would like to dialogue with you and others about this.

[Vicki]

Truthfully it is hard for us to say because we do not know personally the people that founded America, only what is written, and we know what is written is not always the truth. When the first "Christian" settlers came to America they claimed they wanted to make a country of their own, worshiping a God of their own. They seemed to wipe out anyone that had something they wanted for the "glory" of America. The division of the nations between the north and the south, and the south was overcome by the "Christians" that received the power and glory in that war. Then it became a division between the Mexicans and they were wiped out by the "Christians," and were able to take Texas. Then came the division between the Hawaiian nation and culture and "Christians" took over their country. Now we have the power and glory to call America great because we have been successful in power, greed and making a nation saying it a a country founded on the principles of Jesus Christ. You tell me?