Board index ‹ Noah's Ark & the Flood

[Ivan]

> And even if anyone innocent got caught up in the flood, they would immediately go to haven, so there's no problem here.

Yes there is. Jeez, how do people think that just because someone goes to heaven, everything is fine. By that logic, we should kill little kids before they grow up because then we see helping them get to heaven! How can we NOT do something that let's a person go to heaven? Or how does God currently justify having a young child suffer and die at one year old rather than immediately at birth. In either case, the child doesn't exactly have much of a life, but by living longer the child suffers more.

So I think that a God that doesn't consider any human by default innocent, due to something Eve did f*** knows how long ago, and chooses to let children suffer is a shit God that doesn't deserve worship. I mean really, why would people want to worship a God that even tries justifying such things instead of rushing to fix them?

[jimwalton]

You seem to miss the whole point.

No one is innocent (whatever "innocent" really means in this context). I don't care what Sarah McLaughlin sings! I don't agree with B.F. Skinner that we are born with a clean slate. Any parent knows that children at a very young age are disobedient, self-centered, angry, and many other things besides adorably cute. But cuteness isn't the issue here, it's that we are born separated from God. It's not the we're evil or that we've done anything bad, but that we're separated from God.

Suppose a dog is loved and cared for by his master, but one day chooses to run away into the woods, so far as to never be found. That's not the master's fault, but the dog's choice. Let's suppose then that dog has puppies, and they are, necessarily, raised as wild dogs. They don't know the home and love of the master, the warm fire or the food freely put into their bowls. They are wild. it's all they know. They are not "born innocent," to try to bring the analogy into our context, but born wild, separated from the master, knowing nothing of His love.

Let's suppose also there is a raging fire, like in California right now. Some of the pups get killed. Is this the master's fault? No. Actually, every day he has gone out into the woods looking for his beloved dog. Every once in a while he comes upon some of the pups. They're afraid of him. They don't know about his love. Any pups who will return to his home will be welcomed as family, and given food and shelter. It's their choice whether to return or to continue as wild.

These dogs may be "good" dogs, but they're wild. They're not "innocent," so to speak, even from birth.

> how do people think that just because someone goes to heaven, everything is fine.

It's not that everything is fine, but it's not the loss and the cruelty you make it out to be. The children are caught in the wave of the judgment, but they are also brought into the home of the master. It's the right ending to a tragic story.

[Rong and Rong Again]

And the plan was to kill everyone?

[jimwalton]

The plan was punishment for the perpetrators and rescue for the innocent. Any judge worth his salt punishes wrongdoers and vindicates those who are doing good. Any police force doing their job right arrests criminals so the law-abiding citizens can live in peace. Exactly what problem do you have with justice?

[Rong and Rong Again]

> Even a 1-yr-old is growing up part of a broken system, and will (in this context) be trained in the same corruption as the rest of society. Even a 1-yr-old is born separated from God, a "citizen" of the wrong country, so to speak. But even a 1-yr-old get an automatic free ticket to heaven, so we really don't have a problem here.

Do you ever wonder why a lot of people hate Christianity? Could it be because to a Christian, slaughtering an infant is "not a problem"?

[jimwalton]

It's more likely that people hate Christianity because they distort it, misunderstanding, and twist it into saying things that it doesn't say. Of course slaughtering an infant is a problem. I would be pleased to see your evidence for how many infants were killed in the Flood. If you want to converse at this level, which is fine with me, let's deal with the evidence you have.