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[I C My Wiener]

Satan is not evil, because he only punishes bad people.

If Satan was truly evil, he would also punish good people. Yet by definition, he only does this to bad people.

Consequently, Satan is not evil.

[jimwalton]

Let's see, you're posting on a religion site, so you want to talk about religion's perspective of this.

In Judaism, Satan doesn't punish anyone. Satan is not a proper name in Judaism, but the term used of a prosecutor who brings a case against God (book of Job, a few other references).

In Christianity, Satan doesn't punish anyone. Satan deceives people, and he himself is punished by God for that.

In Hinduism, I don't think there is a Satan.

In Buddhism, Satan is "Mara," and he doesn't punish people. Mara is darkness, blindness, and death—an abstraction, not a being.

In Islam, Satan deceives people and wreaks general havoc. He will himself be punished for that behavior.

Therefore, your premise ("Satan is not evil, because he only punishes bad people") is not true.

Your second statement ("If Satan was truly evil, he would also punish good people. Yet by definition, he only does this to bad people.") is also false. Satan doesn't punish good people either, and it has nothing to with his "definition." "Satan" is a term meaning "opposer." By definition, he opposes, not punishes.

Therefore your conclusion ("Consequently, Satan is not evil.") isn't true either.

[I C My Wiener]

Ok. So as a Christian, do you confirm that

1. The Christian Satan is not evil,
2. He does not punish people,
3. He rebelled against God, yet God let him continue his shenanigans, which are not evil.

[jimwalton]

> The Christian Satan is not evil,

Wrong. Satan in the NT is evil. 1 John 5.19; Jn. 8.44; Rev. 12.9.

What I said was that Satan didn't punish anyone. He opposes, deceives, kills, and enslaves. Therefore, he is evil.

What I said is that your statement "If Satan were truly evil, he would also punish good people." He is truly evil, but it doesn't follow that therefore he would by definition punish good people.

> He does not punish people

Correct. He doesn't punish anyone.

> He rebelled against God, yet God let him continue his shenanigans, which are not evil.

He rebelled against God, true.

God lets him continue his shenanigans because he's playing into God's hands with them. God is continually turning the tables on him. The most notable example is Jesus's death on the cross. Whereby Satan meant it as evil, it turns out to be the event in history that brings the most good to humanity. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. Another example: wherever there is Christian martyrdom, the Church grows strong. What Satan means for evil is turned into strength.

Satan's shenanigans are evil, but he doesn't punish anyone.

So statements 1 & 3 are incorrect. You got #2 right. We can keep talking if you want.

[Gin Dog]

Satan caused Jesus' death on the cross? Where does it say that in any holy text?

Satan kills people? Since when has Satan killed more than 10 people? If you accuse someone of murder, you should back it up.

[jimwalton]

> Satan caused Jesus' death on the cross? Where does it say that in any holy text?

I didn't say Satan caused Jesus's death on the cross, but he was clearly involved in it. Satan is "credited" with Judas's betrayal (Lk. 22.3; Jn. 13.27) and participating in Peter's denial (Lk. 22.31). Since Satan tempted Jesus, it's not unreasonable to think he was also tempting Jesus at the crucifixion (Mt. 27.40-44).

Satan didn't cause Jesus's death on the cross. God the Father sent him there (Isa. 53.4, 6; Jn. 17.4; Acts 2.23), and Jesus went there voluntarily (Jn. 10.15-18).

> Satan kills people? Since when has Satan killed more than 10 people? If you accuse someone of murder, you should back it up.

In a sense, Satan was complicit in spiritual death that came to all humanity (Gn. 3). The goal of his activity is man’s destruction in alienation from God. That would qualify as the ultimate murderer.

Also, John 8.44 suggests that Satan is behind this murderous human hostility to Jesus, so the description of Satan as a murderer foreshadows his involvement in Jesus's crucifixion, another "ultimate" murder.

You wonder when Satan has killed more than 10 people, but it's impossible for us to know how many he has killed. It is implied that he was involved in the murder of Abel by Cain (Gn. 4.7-8). We're just not privy to such knowledge of the activities of spirit beings.

[Great King of Heaven]

There are actually several types of Mara - some are creations of a person's flawed mind and others are powerful yet mortal gods (as all gods are mortal). The Mara gods are often named the King of Death because they tempt people away from wise actions into careless actions, and carelessness is death. Not merely humans but gods also may be tempted by Maras.

[jimwalton]

Thanks for filling out more detail in what I was saying. Every piece of information helps.

[Gin Dog]

You made some good points and it looks like you put in some effort into the response. Thank you.