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[King Dextrous]

In the religion I was raised in they did not teach that a higher power was omnipresent, but still omnipotent and omniscient. I have later heard that you can not have a higher power without all three. I have also heard that a higher power can not actually possess all three either. I have brought this up to theists but they would give my the "have faith , he is all" crap. Can someone explain how and why people believe some of these things. I am looking for a critical answer. All criticism is welcome.

[jimwalton]

I don't know what theists you talked to, but I'd be glad to be part of the conversation. As Christians we believe that God is all 3 omni's (-potent, -scient, -present) without contradiction. All of them need to be defined, however, because none of them actually mean "all." For instance, a God who is omniscient can't possibly know what it means to learn. That's obviously an absurdity and a logical contradiction. A God who is omnipotent can't possibly make a square circle—also an absurdity. So also a God who is omnipresent, at least in Christianity, can't fill a person who doesn't believe the way He fills a person who does. The Bible also teaches that God's presence can differ in terms of intensity or degree, just as he doesn't have to use all of his power all the time. So all of the omni's are conditioned by logic (which means by what is obviously true vs. obvious falsenesses, such as logical contradictions, as mentioned).

I have never heard that a high power cannot actually possess all three, so I'd like to discuss that. (I don't go by the "blind faith" rule of illogic, so don't worry 'bout dat.) I'd love to talk about these things with you.

[King Dextrous]

If a higher being (god) isn't actually "all powerful" he has to obey some sort of law. Logic being one. Logic is also what guides scientific methods. If science have proven something, god can not defy it because doing so would defy logic.

[jimwalton]

Thanks for responding. I'm trying to grasp what you're saying.

Are you saying that an all-powerful God should be able to do things that are nonsensically absurd and contradictory (like make a square circle), and if He can't do that, He's not divine? Because if that's what you're saying, that defies logic. So I'm just trying to understand.

> If science have proven something, god can not defy it because doing so would defy logic.

What do you mean by this? Are you claiming that God could not defy science (and therefore logic), or that He is? Omnipotence doesn't require that God be able to defy science, so I'm trying to get what you're saying.

I'd love to talk about this, but I need to make sure I'm first understanding what you're saying. Thanks.