Board index ‹ Creation and Evolution

[August]

Were we created just to worship God? Is that our purpose in life? I've been Christian my whole life but I just don't see the reason we live our lives to die and worship God for an eternity. It's how I was raised. I've become more self dependent these last few months and I really have just started to disconnect truly from my faith. I get that God is suppose to be the infinite sustaining for eternity joygiver but I don't find joy in him ever since I've gotten happier on my own. Have you heard the phrase all good things must come to an end?

[jimwalton]

God created the universe as a temple suitable for his majesty and deity. Other false gods had humans make a temple for them to live in; God (YHWH) made his own temple (the cosmos) that was a more suitable expression of His nature (Ps. 19.1; Acts 17.24). So He created the cosmos to bring Him glory.

Then He created human beings because he wanted more children (Rom. 8.16-18, 29-30; Jn. 1.14, 12; Heb. 2.10). His love was complete and fulfilled in the Trinity, but He wanted more children to share His presence and His love with, not out of need but out of desire.

> I just don't see the reason we live our lives to die and worship God for an eternity.

For the most part, we don't get tired of life. We find meaningful relationships, meaningful education, meaningful interest pursuits (hobbies and fun), and meaningful work. And we go day after day, never thinking "I want this to stop." The only thing that makes life miserable is (1) the misery, and (2) old age that interferes with our meaningful relationships, education, interest pursuits and work. We would never want it to stop, especially if (1) we were meeting new and interesting people and growing in our relationships, (2) able to keep learning things that made life interesting, (3) able to pursue more and different interesting hobbies and fun, and (4) work that made us feel something significant. I've known people who got to the end of their lives and weren't anywhere near boredom, but wanted life to just keep going. People like Walt Disney and Steven Jobs are examples of that, but there are millions more examples of people like that.

Heaven is a place of growing interest. In Luke 19.11-27, Jesus tells a parable about "when the kingdom of God appears." Many people believe that he's talking about heaven and hell. In the story, people in "heaven" are rewarded with jobs and responsibility, much like we have here on earth. Since the book of Revelation describes heaven as being on this earth (Rev. 21.2), and it describes heaven as a city (Rev. 21.10), it makes sense to me that life in heaven will be filled with productive labor, meaningful activity, great relationships, and lots to do. It certainly won't be sitting around playing harps. Or worse yet, accordions. That would kill any of us. : )

Do you know the difference between a trampoline and an accordion? You have to take your shoes off to jump on a trampoline.

Watchman Nee wrote, "Heaven is not a place of inactivity, but we shall be called to a greater work." The reward for responsibility is more responsibility. To him who has, more will be given.

Isaiah 65 makes it sound like people will build houses (v. 21) and do work that is productive and fulfilling (23). Zechariah 14.16 makes mention of worship, as does much of Revelation. Matthew 25.14-30 also mentions "I will put you in charge of many things."

In a speculative vein, what if God starts creating again (since it is his nature), and there are more worlds to explore, and new worlds to explore, and every day something new is popping up (since God is infinite in his creative nature) to do, see, and enjoy? It's a fascinating prospect—a God of infinite creative ability letting loose again for our continual enthusiasm and inspiration.

I actually think that Anne Rice tried to deal with these thoughts in her "Interview with a Vampire." It seemed to be about "What would it be like to live forever?" The ability to live for centuries took its toll on the characters, and we see them wandering in and out of interest and boredom, abusive and meaningful relationships, self-loathing and self-motivation. In essence, I think the book was about how meaningless life can be when it is founded on self-orientation. Interestingly, shortly after writing the book, Anne returned to Catholicism where she wrote several stories about Jesus, finding a whole different orientation to life that changed its purpose and inspiration. (To be fair, I believe that she has once again deserted the faith and describes herself as a secular humanist.) My point is, however, that life grounded on self-orientation too easily lapses into boredom and fear, but life grounded in an eternal Dimension (God) that knows no bounds or limitations only finds one fulfillment after another, and a continuing stream of interest and inspiration.

My anticipation of eternity is filled with excitement. It's going to be life as it was always intended to be.

[August]

Those are all good points and I really haven't spent time thinking heaven will be like a new earth which is exciting. However, what about people I care about who did and are not in heaven. Heaven is said to be perfect but as human wouldn't I be sad and angry someone i cared about is in eternal torment suffering with no end? And if there was some way I wouldn't be sad or angry due to some spiritual force wouldn't that make me brainwashed because I wouldn't be able to feel a certain emotion? The Bible does specify heaven as a place without pain

[jimwalton]

> Heaven is said to be perfect but as human wouldn't I be sad and angry someone i cared about is in eternal torment suffering with no end?

If you end up in heaven, you'll end up seeing things as God sees them (1 Jn. 1.2; 1 Cor. 13.9-10). You'll see things as they really are, and you'll understand what is right and good. You'll understand how God is perfectly fair with everyone. Perfectly fair.

> And if there was some way I wouldn't be sad or angry due to some spiritual force wouldn't that make me brainwashed because I wouldn't be able to feel a certain emotion?

Brainwashed? REALLY misunderstanding a relationship with God and the nature of heaven. We need to talk more.

> The Bible does specify heaven as a place without pain

Yes it does. I can't wait.

[Mom Says So]

Didn’t the Christian god also command a temple be built for him, with excruciating detail?

[jimwalton]

Yes. The earthly temple was a shadow of the reality in heaven (Heb. 8.5). Acts 7.48 tells us that God doesn't live in temples built by humans. Stephen wants to show that God is not limited to a certain geographical hemisphere, viz. Israel, and more particularly, Jerusalem and the temple (Acts 7.17, 18, 22, 29, 36). God is not to be kept in a proverbial box (i.e. the temple) but was free to be worshipped by his true followers anywhere. Then Stephen quotes Isa. 66.1, which is then paralleled with creation (Isa. 66.2).

Interestingly, Solomon's temple was designed and decorated with many features of the Garden of Eden: trees, fruit, cherubim (on the ark). The architecture of many ancient Near Eastern temple evoked images of gardens.

[Severus Snape]

Did the dinosaurs just get boring for him?

[jimwalton]

Nah. Dinosaurs were always fun. They make great toys and t-shirts. Oh, and children's books.

Life is progressive. It moves on. Life forms come and go—it's part of the process and progress of creation. Things evolve. Species begin and end (poor passenger pigeons).

But us? We just may be the death of this planet before very much more time passes.

[Mom Says So]

Wait, so the Christian god didn’t “make the universe as a temple” as your earlier comment said if he actually lives in heaven (unless you want to say heaven exists in the universe). So which is it?

And if the Christian god doesn’t live in temples, then why command humans to build him one?

Lastly, how do you know the “false gods” weren’t simply making temple blueprints for people that mirrored the heaven they resides in? Would that matter at all? If not, why is it important when the Christian god says that’s why he gave people temple blueprints?

[jimwalton]

> Wait, so the Christian god didn’t “make the universe as a temple” as your earlier comment said if he actually lives in heaven (unless you want to say heaven exists in the universe). So which is it?

Yes, God did make the universe as a temple, as my earlier comment said. Heaven is not a physical place, it's where God's presence is. You can't look through the Hubble telescope and find it. The Bible only ever discusses heaven in abstract and metaphorical terms because it's not exactly something we can easily understand. It's very different from our "physical" world. It is NOT a "place" exactly.

> And if the Christian god doesn’t live in temples, then why command humans to build him one?

The Temple provided a means of access, via sacrifice and blood atonement, to God's presence. The symbolism of the Temple reflected God's nature and gave people a way to access the atonement that God provides. That's why Jesus said His body is the temple.

> how do you know the “false gods” weren’t simply making temple blueprints for people that mirrored the heaven they resides in?

The temples of the ancient Near East had decor of a garden, not of the cosmos.