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[Augustine]

Do you think that God is actively involved with our universe or just an observer of His creation?

Forgive me, I just think that some Christians arrogantly presume to know where God exists (either in this universe or outside it). Frankly, I think God (being an almighty being) would have better things to deal with us. We're small, I don't know where that would put God but I think some humans (namely those rich guys who run those megachurches) are wrong to presume what God is doing. I think, given our status, we should just get on with our lives and not rely on God - we are His creations and to think he would be involved is wrong, especially when he has given us free will.

[jimwalton]

> Do you think that God is actively involved with our universe or just an observer of His creation?

God is definitely actively involved. If he's just an observer, than He is not personal, and if He is not personal, then love is not part of the picture. I find deism to be self-contradictory. The Bible is firm that God is personal and that He is involved in both history and people's lives. Since God is love, He can't be so detached from history and nature. The Bible teaches God's involvement—providential care, not a separatistic deism.

I also think deism is incompatible with the natural world. As Romans mentions, creation itself communicates (at least gives hints) that God exists: regularity, order, predictability, beauty, glory, purpose, personality, and especially life. God is engaging our minds and senses, so He can't possibly be removed from all engagement, as deists claim. The act of self-revelation implies some kind of contact and some kind of connection, rendering deism implausible. The Bible makes no demarcation between science and the Bible, and so deism is a biblically misleading worldview.

> I think God (being an almighty being) would have better things to deal with us.

This statement sounds along the lines of "Why would parents love their children?" Children are small and helpless, some are irritating, and some grow to be rebellious and disobedient. Don't adults have more important things to do?

[Augustine]

But what if staying away is the most loving thing to do? In a world where he gives us free will - allowing for both good and bad actions - being involved might (arguably) interfere with that free will, so remaining an observer would be the most loving action. Even parents need to stand back sometimes, so children can learn.

[jimwalton]

> But what if staying away is the most loving thing to do?

I know it's fun to posit hypothetical situations, and we can sometimes even learn from that challenge, but in this case there is no scenario where God distancing Himself from humanity is the most loving thing to do.

> In a world where he gives us free will - allowing for both good and bad actions - being involved might (arguably) interfere with that free will

There is no instance of God interfering with free will, although He is free to act in a most persuasive manner. But that's no different from human beings: I can say things whatever I want to try to persuade you, and I (as a human) can even use violence against you or those you love to "force" you to do my bidding, but in the final analysis, we are all free agents and you absolutely cannot interfere with my free will. I can choose to die by your hand instead of comply to your "force," when it comes right down to it. The principle is no different from God: He can use persuasive means, but ultimately He cannot constrain my free will against my will.

> Even parents need to stand back sometimes, so children can learn.

Oh, this definitely happens, but that's different than God staying away from being actively involved with our universe or with humanity. Even in the New Testament, when the disciples ask Jesus to send the 5000+ people away to get food, Jesus says, "You give them something to eat (Mt. 14.16)", and then He stands there (standing back sometimes) to give them time to respond. When He hears that Lazarus is sick, He deliberately waits 4 days (Jn. 11.6, standing back sometimes), but He's anything but uninvolved or disengaged.