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Do non-Christians go to hell?

Postby Falling » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:08 pm

So God has a plan for everyone right down to the moment they are born. If God lets you be born into a Christian family and be raised Christian then hey thanks God etc.

Now lets say God decides to let you be born into a Muslim family. Aww tough shit, you will now quite possibly go to hell if you've never heard of Jesus Christ.

Now lets say you do come into contact with a missionary who tells you that you need Jesus and be saved. You say NO!

Now what? you go to hell or be punished or whatever it is that happens that Christians can never agree upon as to what happens after you die.

So basically God lets you be born as Muslim but if you reject Jesus you are going to hell.

I'm sure Christians can see the problem here eh :)

Disregard question if you think that God has no control over who and where and to what religion you are born into.
Falling
 

Re: Do non-Christians go to hell?

Postby jimwalton » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:13 pm

There are a lot of misunderstandings in this post. Let's deal with them one at a time:

> So God has a plan for everyone right down to the moment they are born.

This is not a biblical teaching. So your first premise gets you off on the wrong foot in the wrong direction with something that isn't true.

> If God lets you be born into a Christian family and be raised Christian

Being born into a Christian family and being raised a Christian doesn't make one a Christian. A person has to become a Christian by a willful choice. No one is a Christian because they were born into a Christian family and raised that way.

> God decides to let you be born into a Muslim family.

God doesn't decide who is going to be born into what family. We take care of that ourselves as two people become pregnant and give birth to a child.

> Now lets say you do come into contact with a missionary who tells you that you need Jesus and be saved. You say NO!
Now what? you go to hell or be punished or whatever it is that happens that Christians can never agree upon as to what happens after you die.

Right. Those who do not turn to Christ but willfully reject him will be subject to the proper judgment for a willfully ungodly decision.

> So basically God lets you be born as Muslim but if you reject Jesus you are going to hell.

God doesn't make people be born Muslim. But it's true that whoever rejects Jesus has to face the consequences. Muslims regard Jesus (Isa) as an important prophet. He was born of a virgin and performed miracles (both of which are untrue of Muhammad). There are more teachings in the Qur'an about Isa than about Muhammad. He is known as the Spirit of God and the Word of God, titles not attributed to Muhammad, and Isa is also regarded by the Qur'an as holy and sinless. He was also raised up by Allah to the heavens, and will be the one to return to earth to establish the community of Islam, and all people of the Book will believe in him. The Qur'an does not speak of him as inferior to Muhammad. A Muslim cannot in good conscience or with spiritual discernment reject Jesus, because the Qur'an speaks of him in many ways as superior to Muhammad.

> I'm sure Christians can see the problem here eh :)

Not at all because your argument is based in many fallacies.
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Re: Do non-Christians go to hell?

Postby Falling » Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:45 am

I know this is a bit of simple post, but are you saying that who and where we are born to is not determined by God?

Why do Christians keep saying being born into a Christian family doesn't make you Christian? 90% of the Christians I know in real life are Christians because their parents are Christians and were born in the Bible belt of India. Yeah we have a Bible belt here too :)
Falling
 

Re: Do non-Christians go to hell?

Postby jimwalton » Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:53 am

I am genuinely saying that to whom and where we are born is not determined by God. That is correct. God has created us as free agents, and we have babies as we choose. The Bible does not teach that to whom and where we are born is determined by God. Nor does God have a blueprint for our lives that we are expected to find and follow. God desires that we be saved from sin and live holy lives, but the course we follow to that end is our own to choose.

Why do Christians keep saying that being born into a Christian family doesn't make you Christian? Because the Bible teaches that a person must make a willful choice to love God and follow Him. The Bible teaches that everyone is born separated from God, what it calls "dead in sin," and with a sinful nature. One becomes a Christian by choosing to repent from one's sin and align with God in a relationship of love and obedience. The Christians you know who are from Christian families were most likely taught in the ways of God and definitely some time in their lives had to make their own choice that they decided to turn from their sin nature and instead want Jesus to live in them, and they would live for Jesus. Just having been born to a Christian family doesn't make one a Christian. In that sense Christianity is very different from Hinduism, Judaism, and Islam. One becomes a Christian by decision, not by biological birth.
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Re: Do non-Christians go to hell?

Postby Falling » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:35 am

"Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them." – Psalm 139:16

The proper interpretation of Psalm 139 is that God knows each individual all the way from the pre-embryonic stage through death.

Apparently a lot of Christians will disagree with you about God not being in control of who you are born to or born as. And I find it very odd that God who knows when and how you die doesn't know how you are born.

As for the second part I'll make it really simple

1. Is a person born into a Christian family more likely to become a Christian or a Hindu especially if he has never been taught about Hinduism? Yes or No.

2. A person born into a Muslim family will become a Muslim if he is brought up as such by his parents. Yes or No.
Falling
 

Re: Do non-Christians go to hell?

Postby jimwalton » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:35 am

Thank you for bringing up Psalm 139. Let's go back to the ancient world. The Mesopotamians affirmed that the dates of death and life were fixed by fate and irrevocably established. They also believed that the course for each person was fixed and recorded on a Tablet of Destinies. But the thought of Psalm 139.16 is in contrast to that, as you read the whole Psalm to get its flow. It is not a hopeless resignation to life and death, but rather the proper place of humanity within the divine government of the universe. In contrast to the anxiety of the Mesopotamian idea, David is saying that his life rests in the sovereign care of his God. This is the point of 139.16, not that ever day is determined and we are mere robots walking the earth.

You're right that it is saying that God knows each individual all the say from the pre-embryonic stage through death, but it is *not* saying that there is a determined plan for my life that I must follow.

And just to make it clear, God certain knows how we are born, but that again doesn't mean that he dictates it. Knowledge is different than causality.

I agree that a person born into a Christian family is more likely to become a Christian than a Hindu or Muslim, and you have said it now yourself: A person must become a Christian, even though born to a Christian family. It is not his birth that makes him Christian, but a later decision. While many people do follow the religion of their upbringing, many still do not. But a person who is born a Hindu is a Hindu unless he or she decides to make a change; a person born a Muslim is a Muslim unless he or she decides to make a change; but a person born to a Christian family is not a Christian until he decides to become a Christian.


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