Board index ‹ Prayer

[September 3]

Is god more likely to answer multiple prayers as opposed to one? I am confused on why we pray in groups or often ask people to pray for us. How does that change God's response to what we are praying about? I know there's no statistical way to answer or prove this, but generally speaking, how much more likely is God to answer the prayers of many as opposed to just a single prayer?

[jimwalton]

The Bible doesn't command us to pray in groups, nor does it give any indication that group prayer is any more effective than individual prayer. I would say, however, there are a few benefits of praying together:

1. It helps us as Christians to be more of a community together. We know each other's needs and concerns, we support each other with conversation and affection/compassion when we hear of those needs and concerns, and we might even be able to help one another in real ways when we know what's going on.

2. Matthew 18.20 does say that "where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them." Some people would claim that this teaches there is more power in group prayer than in individual prayer, but it's a misreading of the text. It’s not that prayer is more effective if we are gathered together. The point of the text is this: self-centeredness (self-orientation) is the sin of the world (Gn. 3, etc.) The gathering together gives evidence that God has changed us: he has replaced our self-focus with a desire to be bonded together with others to whom we belong by faith—even those we disagree with, and even with some we may not like! But if you can’t love your brother whom you can see, you can’t love God whom you can't see. Prayer together is a picture of the new life in us playing itself out in real life between us. It’s an expression of our fellowship, and shows that we’ve been changed. It's also a temple text. Christians gathered together are the temple of God where his presence lives, and a building is now unnecessary.

3. There is another text in Acts 12.5 & 12 where the believers had gathered together to pray together. This is one text where we draw a distinction between what is descriptive and what is prescriptive. Is it just described to us as happening this way, or is it commanded that it needs to happen this way? The Acts text is descriptive. They gathered together to pray together. Good for them. They wanted to do that, but it's not commanded or required, or even necessarily beneficial, to pray that way.

4. One last observation. The Bible teaches that God is compassionate and listens to our prayers and answers some of them. It would make sense, then, that if more people are praying about something, God will hear the "heart" of the Church and possibly be more moved to respond. There is no guarantee, and God is not obligated to answer positively just because more people are praying the same prayer, but since Christianity is all about relationship with God (and not about religious practice), it would make sense that more people praying, and even praying together, would make a difference to the heart of God. But there are no guarantees. Our prayers never obligate God to do as we ask.

[September 3]

Thanks so much for your answer. So you think there isn't probably a real benefit of outcomes by soliciting prayers from church leaders or submitting prayer requests, then?

[jimwalton]

I think there's always value and benefit in asking people to pray for you or for concerns of yours. But the Bible doesn't teach that God listens to the prayers of church leaders any differently than anybody else's prayers.

[September 3]

Benefits meaning strengthening of faith and trust in the Lord? Again, thanks for your answer

[jimwalton]

I mentioned benefits of being more like a family and showing care for each other in practical ways, as well as the possibility that our prayers would stir the heart of God to respond.

I didn't say anything about strengthening of faith and trust in the Lord, but I'll add this. Meteorologists have computer algorithms to predict the weather. Every day that goes by they add the new information to the system with the expectation that their forecasts can grow more and more accurate. That is the case, to some extent: they are always on a learning curve. But the weather is never and will never be totally predictable. There are simply too many variables that can't be known or discerned to be able to predict the weather flawlessly. So also with prayer. We are on a learning curve. Every time we pray, and we see whether or not God answers, and how he answers, teaches us. We're on a learning curve, and hopefully we understand more all the time about who God is and how he works in the world. But God is never and will never to totally predictable. There are simply too many variables that can't be known or discerned to be able to say, "This is what God will or will not do." So while prayer should strengthen our faith and trust in the Lord since we should always be learning something (if we're paying attention), prayer is not just a matter of faith and trust, and a "benefit" of prayer is not simply what some detractors call "confirmation bias."

[Storm Trooper]

This is the value and benefit to which Jim was referring: when you ask people to pray for you (or for anything), you inherently must communicate your thoughts and feelings, your concerns, and/or your sin with others... bringing you closer together, and fulfilling the ideal of community, mutual support, and love that God intended for his children. It's healthy. We weren't created to be self-sufficient islands of emotion; we were created to lean and depend on him first, and on each other also.

(Note: I don't claim to speak for Jim past this point)

I had some thoughts on prayer in general that I wanted to share as well, but Jim wrote such a damn fine response that I wanted to use it as context and build on it, rather than starting a new comment thread of my own. If wisdom were calories, that post would be a full-sized Cinnabon™.

There's a HUGE assumption underpinning everything the Bible says about prayer that often gets forgotten: as Christians, we no longer live according to our own will or ego... we live by God's instead. Put more directly, it really, really, really matters what you're praying for, and why. Make a habit of checking yourself - "am I praying for reasons aligning with my Father's will, or my own?" If you're praying for things like finals week at school going well, your mother's cancer being healed, etc., those prayers probably aren't very likely to receive acknowledgment... whether it's a whole congregation praying or just you.

"But, Storm Trooper, how could you possibly suggest that praying for someone, let alone a loved one, to be healed of cancer is selfish?!?"

Well, let me explain that with an example... this is how one might pray selflessly, with a Christ-like perspective, in that situation:
God, if your will includes my mom dying of cancer, then please reveal those plans to me and show me my place in them... so I won't be simply overwhelmed with grief, in the absence of meaning and purpose. If your plan does NOT include that, then please heal her! Either way, help me understand and see things your way, so I can be the best servant I possibly can, no matter the circumstances.

Hope my perspective helps! ʕᵔᴥᵔʔ

[jimwalton]

Thanks, man. Good stuff. I'll chime back in myself. Prayer is conversation with God that's an important part of the relationship (as it is an important part of any relationship). I talk to God, most of the time, not to get stuff out of him, but because I want to talk to him. I love him, and I want a relationship with him. So I talk. Just as I talk to my spouse, I am invited to talk to God about anything. It’s my relationship, not a wish list. He’s not Santa Claus, but my God.

I have learned (at least) three things from the Bible about prayer that I wish to bring out. First, almost all of what God promises to do for me in the Bible is internal, not circumstantial. According to the Bible, if I’m going to ask anything from God in prayer, 90% of the time it's going to pertain to inner qualities: patience, strength, clarity of thought, the power of the Spirit, and the like. This is what the Bible instructs me to ask for. Second, almost all of what God does circumstantially is through other people. If God is going to answer my prayers about something in my circumstances, it will likely happen through rather normal means: the actions or words of a person, something I read, a thought in my head. But how am I supposed to tell what is normal occurrence and what is God’s hand? A Secret Service agent is trained to look for certain things, and when in a crowd, he knows what to look for and how to recognize it. His eyes are different than mine. So also an accountant poring over ledgers, a hunter in the wild, a detective on the scene, a psychologist in a session, or a teacher assessing her pupils. Our training legitimately affects what we see, how we interpret it, and our attitude about it. So also a Christian. Through reading the Bible, and growing in our Christian walk, we are trained to see the hand of God; we understand how he works, what his activity looks like, and how to recognize it. Others will just see normal things, no different than if I were to look over ledger books or go hunting. I won’t see squat. The trained eye will see another world. I have learned to see God's hand in my world, and to recognize answers to prayer.

Third, answers are often not what I had in mind. In the Bible people prayed for stuff, and as you analyze the story and its causes and effects, you see that they got what they prayed for, but not at all what they prayed for. It’s like the poem:

I asked God for strength, that I might achieve,
I was made weak, that I might learn humbly to obey.
I asked for health, that I might do greater things,
I was given infirmity, that I might do better things.
I asked for riches, that I might be happy,
I was given poverty, that I might be wise...
I asked for power, that I might have praise from men,
I was given weakness, that I might feel the need of God.
I asked for all things that I might enjoy life,
I was given life, that I might enjoy all things...
I got nothing I asked for, but everything I had hoped for.
Almost despite myself, my unspoken prayers were answered.
I am among all men most richly blessed.

For instance, in the OT, the Assyrian army was threatening Jerusalem. They had already crushed and burned the cities of Judah; now the capital was in the crosshairs. The king and the prophet prayed for Jerusalem to be spared. Over the course of the next period of time, a rat infestation annihilated the Assyrian camp with disease, and they had to withdraw. Well, that’s not quite what the king probably had in mind, but it was an answer to the prayer. Then it tells us that the Assyrian emperor was murdered by his own sons. That was 20 years later, but still considered an answer to the same prayer. Weird, huh? But that’s what I’m talking about. Once you understand how God works, you see things that others think "just happened" and recognize their connection to prayer.

So what is the purpose of prayer? Seeking the pleasure of God's company. I talk to him because I love him. If it's all gimme-gimme-gimme—well, who wants a friend like that? He's not the fairy God-Father. We shut out the noise of the earth to commune with the song of heaven. And life goes on with its blessings and tragedies. My circumstantial life is no different than anyone else's, but my inner life is a treasure trove of immense difference. I have learned to see the hand of God around me, and it often surprises me in all its forms. God is all around me, actively at work. Do I get what I pray for? Only like the poem. Not what I ask for some of the time, but answers none the less. God is taking care of me. Sure, I get stones some days and fish others; some days I'm Job, some I'm in mountain mode. I never hear a voice, and I've learned not to trust the thoughts that come to me in prayer. Some are trustworthy, and some aren't. They need to be assessed because my mind is an unreliable source. I talk to God in prayer; he talks to me through his Word (Now THERE’S a treasure trove).

Prayer is not a hurling of hope or faith into the darkness. No, just a sometimes peaceful and sometimes agitated heart taking time to talk it over with the Lord. Sometimes I try to picture him when I talk. Not the old guy with the geezer beard, but the fathomless I AM beyond space and time. My mind gets lost in the immensity and grandeur, but it helps orient me to whom I'm really speaking. I talk in real words, not grandiose poetic ones.

Don't get me wrong. Prayer is anything but a smooth road. But I'm learning. Just like I'm learning how to be a good husband. I learn as I go. Meanwhile I show my love in every way I can. Good communication is an important part of that picture. That's what prayer is.

[Storm Trooper]

This is the best description of prayer I've ever read or heard.

> And life goes on with its blessings and tragedies. My circumstantial life is no different than anyone else's, but my inner life is a treasure trove of immense difference. I have learned to see the hand of God around me, and it often surprises me in all its forms. God is all around me, actively at work.

[...]

> I never hear a voice, and I've learned not to trust the thoughts that come to me in prayer. Some are trustworthy, and some aren't. They need to be assessed because my mind is an unreliable source. I talk to God in prayer; he talks to me through his Word (Now THERE’S a treasure trove).

[...]

> I learn as I go. Meanwhile I show my love in every way I can.

100% proof of authenticity. Kinship in spades.

[jimwalton]

Thanks. I appreciate the affirmation.