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How do we know there's a God? What is he like?

Re: Can God do or say anything to cause you to reject him?

Postby jimwalton » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:23 pm

There are tests for truth that we use across a spectrum of disciplines: intention, ability, character, consistency, bias, corroboration, and weighing adverse evidences. We do these things all the time in an attempt to determine truth in science, history, a court of law, economics, and so also in religion. We use our brains, we weigh claims and evidences, and we infer the most reasonable conclusion.
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Re: Can God do or say anything to cause you to reject him?

Postby Steve the Horse » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:01 pm

Okay, that's fair. I'd like to propose a hypothetical. If you were mistaken in the belief that God is a moral being, is there a way that you could discover that? Not saying you are mistaken, but hypothetically, if you were, how could you find out?
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Re: Can God do or say anything to cause you to reject him?

Postby jimwalton » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:01 pm

A moral being can be evaluated by his or her actions. As Jesus said in Matthew 7.16-20, "By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."
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Re: Can God do or say anything to cause you to reject him?

Postby Steve the Horse » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:35 am

It sounds to me like you're saying that if indeed God was an immoral being, you could discover that by observing him performing some certain action or combination of actions. What would that action or those actions be?
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Re: Can God do or say anything to cause you to reject him?

Postby jimwalton » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:36 am

The Bible is the record of God's actions in history. And though God continues to work in history, it's in the Bible where we have writers and prophets who correctly interpret history for us. Without the inspiration of God, I have observed that people are pretty lousy at interpreting their circumstances and getting it right about which parts God played and which He didn't. So the Bible is where the authority is. So it's the Bible where we observe God performing actions, and those are interpreted for us by the biblical prophets and writers.
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Re: Can God do or say anything to cause you to reject him?

Postby Steve the Horse » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:15 pm

That doesn't really answer my question though. You said:

> A moral being can be evaluated by his or her actions.

Is there any action that God could hypothetically perform that would influence you to revise your position on his morality?
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Re: Can God do or say anything to cause you to reject him?

Postby jimwalton » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:15 pm

Hypothetically, yes. We have to observe God's actions in history and the explanation of them to assess his morality as a deity. Hypothetically speaking, if God were to do something out of character we should be able to recognize that and revise our positions on his morality. Hypothetically speaking, however, for God to do something out of character would be a self-contradiction, so I'm really not sure where this conjectured conversation is taking us.

But, for instance, Donald Trump is already being assessed, though he hasn't done anything. I've heard some of the protestors say, "Donald Trump has been a terrible president." I find it interesting, since he has only been in office 2 days. To me it sounds like prejudice: pre-judging. But I think after he has been in office for a considerable time, then it will be fair to assess his performance, and he can be evaluated by his actions.

It's the same with God. One examines the track record to determine merit.
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Re: Can God do or say anything to cause you to reject him?

Postby Steve the Horse » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:20 pm

Okay, good. So my next question is: What would it take? You've said if God were to do something out of his character as you understand it, you may revise your position on his morality. Can you think of a possible example of such an action?
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Re: Can God do or say anything to cause you to reject him?

Postby jimwalton » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:23 pm

Well, what it would take, as I have been clear, is for God to act in contradiction to his character, doing what is impossible for him to do, viz., acting in sin with a sinful motivation. If God did that, then I would be fair to judge him as not God. But since you asked for a possible example, this doesn't qualify because it's not possible. If you want a hypothetical example, this qualifies as a hypothetical example.
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Re: Can God do or say anything to cause you to reject him?

Postby Steve the Horse » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:53 pm

What's an example of an action that would be out of God's character? I'm not asking if you think God would ever actually perform such an action, just an example of what that action could be.
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