Board index ‹ Atheism

[Too many fans]

Atheist here: Could you ever take into consideration that atheism can often be the easiest way to protect oneself from corrupt religious groups formed to feed off people’s money and push dangerous beliefs?

I have seen religion do a whole lot more harm than good in my life.

A friend of mine tried to kill herself in high school because of abusive Mormon counseling that put a huge strain on her.

My aunt spent thousands of dollars on Scientology courses.

My other aunt is a Jew-for-Jesus, and she is afraid of Pokémon, DND, and Harry Potter

I had a Muslim friend in high school who was terrified to touch a small puppy because her religion conditioned her to believe that puppies were bad.

My Mormon friends couldn’t drink coffee cuz they believed it was devil juice or something.

Religion tore my parents apart, mom was Irish Catholic, dad was an atheist and that drove a wedge between them.

Religion gets people to hate queer people, it encourages racism and nationalism, and it encourages harmful, delusional beliefs.

Then there’s stuff like Heaven’s Gate and the Westboro Baptist Church.

Frankly, the only religious person in my life who is chill about it is my step mom, and she’s a Jewish Wiccan. I respect the hell out of her for that.

I’m an atheist to protect myself from crazy beliefs. I’m an atheist because there are so many religions out there, and picking one seems arbitrary with a 99.99999% chance that I’m completely wrong.

I’m not evil, I don’t eat babies, I don’t want to go on murder sprees, I just don’t want to involve myself with stuff that could damage my mental health.

Can you please just accept that?

[jimwalton]

Sure, I get it. There's a lot of corruption, hypocrites, and fakers in religion just like anywhere else (politics, business, etc.), and it does its damage, for sure. It's always regrettable when religion messes people up. But don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. The problem isn't religion, but instead with corrupt and hypocritical people.

> I have seen religion do a whole lot more harm than good in my life.

In contrast, I've seen religion accomplish SO much good: hospitals, education, advocating against human trafficking, advocating for the poor, working in remote places of the world filled with things like AIDS, dengue fever, and such things. Historically Christians have been on the forefront of so many beneficial causes—which is not to say there haven't been atrocious things, too. But don't judge a religion by the extremist fringe and the idiots in our midst. Judge it by its founder and its principles.

> A friend of mine tried to kill herself in high school because of abusive Mormon counseling that put a huge strain on her.

That's tragic. Sorry.

> My aunt spent thousands of dollars on Scientology courses.

Uh, so deceptive. Scientology is just fake...and abusive.

> My other aunt is a Jew-for-Jesus, and she is afraid of Pokémon, DND, and Harry Potter

Afraid??? Hmm...

> I had a Muslim friend in high school who was terrified to touch a small puppy because her religion conditioned her to believe that puppies were bad.

Puppies are bad? No one ever told me! I think they're adorable.

> Religion tore my parents apart, mom was Irish Catholic, dad was an atheist and that drove a wedge between them.

So was it religion that drove them apart, or atheism? Maybe they were incompatible? Irreconcilable differences? Mismatched personalities? But you're sure religion was to blame?

> Religion gets people to hate queer people, it encourages racism and nationalism, and it encourages harmful, delusional beliefs.

Now this is just wrong. Just because there are some haters out there, don't blame Christianity. Christianity teaches us to love everyone. Encourages racism? That's a lie. Encourages nationalism? That's a lie, too. Harmful, delusional beliefs? Not true. Even if I choose to believe things you don't, how's that harmful?

> Then there’s stuff like Heaven’s Gate and the Westboro Baptist Church.

Don't blame religion for weirdos. Every movement has them. Every cause has them. We don't assume ISIS defines all Muslims, we know KKK doesn't define all Christians, and Westboro Baptist Church is in a class by itself.

> Frankly, the only religious person in my life who is chill about it is my step mom, and she’s a Jewish Wiccan. I respect the hell out of her for that.

I would guess you need to meet more Christians. What are you doing for lunch tomorrow; let's get together. Your post is filled with a lot of stereotypes and caricatures—the extremes that don't represent the whole.

> I’m an atheist to protect myself from crazy beliefs.

I can tell by your examples that you've had exposure to more than your fair share of religious weirdos, but you're wrong to assume that you therefore have an accurate picture of religion.

> there are so many religions out there, and picking one seems arbitrary with a 99.99999% chance that I’m completely wrong.

It's not just a matter of "picking one." We evaluate the evidence, we assess for truth, and we use reason and logic. There's nothing arbitrary about it.

> I’m not evil, I don’t eat babies, I don’t want to go on murder sprees, I just don’t want to involve myself with stuff that could damage my mental health. Can you please just accept that?

Sure, I get that. But you also need to see that your perceptions of religion have been negatively colored by some bad exposure. Can you accept that? There are billions of wonderful people out there with religious beliefs. (There are also too many wackos—but there are atheist wackos, too. A few bad apples shouldn't define the whole tree.) You've obviously been hurt by people and seem to think that religious people are just out there. Sorry that has happened to you, but it's far from an accurate picture.

[Too many fans]

Wow, you are the definition of harmful delusional beliefs. Hm.

[jimwalton]

Interesting. Well, let's talk about it, then. What did I say that's harmful? I said that there are a lot of good people out there, and too many wackos (every village has an idiot). I said that Christians have done a lot of good through history, but some harm. I said Scientology is fake and puppies are cute. I said that Heaven's Gate and Westboro Baptist are waaaaay out there. So what's harmful in what I said?

> delusional

Sure, let's talk about this, too. As an atheist who has had some bad experiences, I wouldn't expect you to agree with me on stuff, but that doesn't mean I'm delusional. But let's discuss it.

[Too many fans]

Sorry. Okay, no, I actually agree with a lot of what you said. I got my replies mixed up arguing with someone else who wouldn't stop quoting bible verses at me and using basically every street preacher argument I've had screamed in my face since high school and saying I would go to hell. Blocked them. Thank you for being patient with that comment. Totally my bad.

I can accept that not every religious person is mean, of course. I don't stop being friends with someone because they're religious. And I know I'm biased. We're all biased. Reality is tainted by perception. What one person sees as absolute truth, another sees as lies. That much is clear to me.

It just seems like there's way more lies than truth out there, you know?

[jimwalton]

Oh, I agree with all of this. Thanks for the response. Some people seem to think that screaming is more convincing than straight and honest answers. I don't get it.

> I can accept that not every religious person is mean, of course. I don't stop being friends with someone because they're religious.

Thanks for this. I know a lot of nice Christians, nice Muslims, nice Hindus, and nice atheists. There are lots of people who really are good people.

> What one person sees as absolute truth, another sees as lies.

Agreed. That's why we work so hard to figure out what's true.

> It just seems like there's way more lies than truth out there, you know?

Agreed again. Thanks for your openness and honesty. I think the truth is very narrow, by definition. Despite the infinite possibilities, 2 + 2 only equals 4 and nothing else. Theories are great, but once we find out the truth, there's only 1 answer (I know I'm generalizing, but you catch my drift). So I guess it's unavoidable that there's way more lies than truth out there. The possibilities are endless, but the truth is a pinpoint.

[Scape211]

My heart goes out to you Too Many Fans. While I do agree with jim that truth is narrow and the goal with religion is to find what we believe to be true, this often gets defined more so by our experiences and surrounding circumstances. Sure you can talk about history and data relating to what you believe, but I've had friends who come from broken homes. Parents who split up, father's with anger issues from being bi-polar, etc. And in each of those instances the parents claim to be religious or a Christian. Now I'm not here to judge them as Christians, but what can they hope for of their child while leaving this example? Add on top of that the multiple stereotypes of Christians and religion in general for that matter and its really hard to get people to properly search for the truth.

I was raised in a Christian home and it gave me a base of right and wrong, but when I grew up and went to college (and basically got out from my parents roof), I didn't know what I believed. For a while I doubted the existence of God, Christianity, and religion overall. It wasn't until I did research in various avenues (history, science, cultural, etc) that I came back to God. I was one who was fortunate not to have an overly negative experience growing up that it allowed me the drive to push through and find truth. Thats not always the case for others. I hope you are able to truly define what you believe.