Board index ‹ Science and the Bible

[No Go]

I’m a former Christian, I’m now a non believer. What really changed my mind about well, everything, was science, NASA, The Big Bang, Evolution, etc. And how religious beliefs have caused some of the worlds greatest disasters/loss of life. For example 9/11. I just want to ask, what are your thoughts (Christians) on all the topics I’ve mentioned. And what the bible has to ether counter this, or, have mentioned this. And do you think with more information being found out about our universe and biology, do you think you could change your mind about Christianity if science proposed something big. No disrespect to you guys, as I say I was once a Christian myself.

[jimwalton]

> I’m a former Christian, I’m now a non believer.

Sorry to hear that.

> What really changed my mind about well, everything, was science, NASA, The Big Bang, Evolution, etc.

That's odd. I believe in science, NASA is cool, I believe in the Big Bang and evolution. These are not defeaters for Christianity.

> And how religious beliefs have caused some of the worlds greatest disasters/loss of life.

I'll agree and admit that Christians and Muslims have done some violent things, but just int he 20th century alone, the atrocities committed by Hitler, Stalin, and Mao (all atheists) is undeniably horrific. The record for atheists isn't exactly minuscule.

> I just want to ask, what are your thoughts (Christians) on all the topics I’ve mentioned.

• I love science. Science is awesome, fantastic, wonderful, and such a great source of knowledge about our world and appreciation of it.
• NASA. Just like most kids, I wanted to be an astronaut when I grew up. I had a ton of respect for NASA and still do. I hope to do an interview soon with Dr. Jennifer Wiseman, a wonderful Christian scientist who is the head of the Hubble Telescope. Brilliant astrophysicist.
• I believe that the Big Bang is how things started. I know scientists keep learning and may someday change their ideas, but for now it makes sense. The universe is 14.5 billion years old and expanding!
• I believe in evolution. It's the mechanism God used to create life. I'm all in, but I quite convinced it couldn't have happened without help. It's too much to ask in too short a time. But with God's directive hand, evolution is the process He used to bring about the world as it is, and it's still changing.

> And what the bible has to ether counter this, or, have mentioned this.

The Bible has no conflict with science. God revealed Himself in nature and He reveled Himself in Scripture, and the two do not contradict.

> And do you think with more information being found out about our universe and biology, do you think you could change your mind about Christianity if science proposed something big.

The more science discovers, the more I'm full of awe about our universe and full of worship to our God. I'm not sure what you mean by science changing my mind about Christianity. How's that possible? Just because of something big? Like what?

[No Go]

Acknowledging your last answer, So do u know many Christians that believe in evolution or the Big Bang? And would rather believe in how god created the universe on 7 days, or Adam and Eve. My school which was a catholic school taught these things to me we were required to know this for our cv. I just thought all of that was ridiculous. And was a strong believer in science. Every time we brought up something against about what the bible was saying, we were lectured on the many things that science can’t prove, yet the bible can.

[jimwalton]

> So do u know many Christians that believe in evolution or the Big Bang?

Good question. I'm not sure how to get an accurate handle on that. No matter where I try to pick up statistics on such things, none of the statistics agree. As usual, I guess, anyone can make statistics say anything they want. Biologos (https://biologos.org), an organization of committed Christians who are also scientists (or I guess I could say scientist who are also committed Christians), say that the number of Christians who believe in evolution is rising.

> And would rather believe in how god created the universe on 7 days, or Adam and Eve.

There are several reasons I believe in evolution. The first is that the Bible tells us that God created the universe, not how He created it or how long it took. We recognize that God uses various means and mechanisms through the Bible to do His work. Since the Bible doesn't tell us how God created, we look to science (God's other revelation of Himself) for the how. Which leads to my second reason.

The second is that evolution is scientifically irrefutable. Since God reveals Himself in His Word and He reveals Himself in creation, those two revelations can't contradict each other. And they don't. God is the creator, the universe is His work, and process, progress, and evolution were the means. I have no problem with any of that, and neither does the Bible.

Just to toss it out there, I subscribe to the interpretation of Genesis 1-2 laid out by Dr. John Walton in “The Lost World of Genesis 1” (https://www.amazon.com/Lost-World-Genesis-One-Cosmology/dp/0830837043/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=john+walton&qid=1564575785&s=gateway&sr=8-2). Briefly reporting, in it he asserts that Genesis 1 is about how God ordered the cosmos to function, not how He manufactured it. Certainly God created the universe (as taught in other verses in the Bible), but that’s not what Genesis 1 is about.

The first "day" is clearly (literally) about a period of light called day, and a period of light called night. It is about the sequence of day and night, evening and morning, literally. Therefore, what Day 1 is about is God ordering the universe and our lives with the function of TIME, not God creating what the physicists call "light," about which the ancients knew nothing.

Look through the whole chapter. It is about how the firmament functions to bring us weather (the firmament above and below), how the earth functions to bring forth plants for our sustenance, how the sun, moon, and stars function to order the days and seasons. We find out in day 6 the function of humans: to be fruitful and multiply, to rule the earth and subdue it. Walton contends that we have to look at the text through ancient eyes, not modern ones, and the concern of the ancients was function and order. (It was a given that the deities created the material universe.) The differences between cultures (and creation accounts) was how the universe functioned, how it was ordered, and what people were for. (There were large disagreements among the ancients about function and order; it widely separates the Bible from the surrounding mythologies.)

And on the 7th day God rested. In the ancient world when a god came to "rest" in the temple, he came to live there and engage with the people as their god. So it is not a day of disengagement, but of action and relationship.

In other words, it's a temple text, not an account of material creation. There was no temple that could be built by human hands that would be suitable for him, so God ordered the entire universe to function as his Temple. The earth was ordered to function as the "Holy Place," and the Garden of Eden as his "Holy of Holies." Adam and Eve were given the function of being his priest and priestess, to care for sacred space (very similar to Leviticus) and to be in relationship with God (that's what Genesis 2 is about).

You probably want to know about the seven days. In the ancient world ALL temple dedications were 7-day dedications, where what God had done to order his world was rehearsed, and on the 7th day God came to "rest" in his temple—to dwell with his people and engage with them as their God. That's what the seven days mean.

Back to evolution. Therefore Gn 1-2 make no comment on how the material world came about, or how long it took. We need science to tell us that. We need Gn 1-2 to tell us what it's there for (God's temple) and how it is supposed to function (to provide a place of fellowship between God and humans, and to bring God glory as an adequate temple for his Majesty).

Feel free to discuss this. For those who have never heard these ideas, it takes a little adjusting. But they make a whole lot of sense to me.

> And was a strong believer in science.

I also am a strong believer in science, but I don't have to ditch my faith to subscribe to science. You should check out that https://Biologos.org site

> Every time we brought up something against about what the bible was saying, we were lectured on the many things that science can’t prove, yet the bible can.

Yeah, I'm reticent to comment without specifics. It's true that the Bible has a sufficiency of explanation that science still lacks, but that's not to discredit science; instead it's to show that both go hand in hand. Generally science tells us how things came to be, and the Bible tells us why. Science tells us how things work, and the Bible tells us what part God plays in all of that.

I'm willing to keep discussing any of this, though.

[No Go]

I will check out https://biologos.org, thanks for the reply