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[Vivian]

If you all (meaning Christians) believe in the same God, why are you hearing different things?

I’ve been reading comments on this sub for awhile, and I’ve genuinely found some great answers. However, I’ve always wondered why your god would have you guys differ on pretty important subjects. For instance, some of you guys believe in evolution while others are creationists. Some of you guys believe LGBT is a sin while others think it’s not. Some of you guys believe in a literal fire version of hell, while some of you guys believe in a somewhat different version. I’d say these are all pretty important subjects (and I’m not even Christian). So if you all are hearing from the same person “god/Jesus/holy spirit” why are you forming such different ideas?

[jimwalton]

It's because we're thinking people, we use our brains, and it's OK if we are a diversity of thought. We agree on the fundamentals (theism, Christ's deity, Christ's atonement on the cross, Jesus's resurrection, etc.) but it's OK to differ on the items that aren't dogma (creation, LGBTQ, hell, etc.). Christianity is one big tent. We all agree on the poles holding up the tent (the essentials), but everything else is a matter of discernment. Unity in diversity. It's actually a strength.

We are even seeing right now quite a bit of disagreement in the medical and scientific community about COVID. Some say "isolate to break contagion," while other say, "blend to create herd immunity." Some are saying "everyone should wear masks" while others are saying "wearing masks is not helpful." Some say hydroxychrloroquine is potentially helpful, and others say no. If they all believe in the same science, how can they be in so much disagreement? Because they're thinking people trying to work things out.

[Vivian]

Ok, I agree with what you’re saying - but why do you think God would allow us to be so ambiguous? And how do you decipher what the fundamentals are compared to what’s dogma? Personal intuition?

Also, many of the “dogma” you guys disagree on cause many people to turn away from Christianity. Why would this not be important, and why would God allow that?

[jimwalton]

> why do you think God would allow us to be so ambiguous?

He wants us to think, and diversity is a strength. Look at it this way: suppose every time you had a question, you asked God and He just dumped the answer on you. Bingo! Voila! Would that be the most cooolll? No, actually, it would be horrible. We would never learn to think. We wouldn't even bother to read. God would be our Siri or our Alexa. We'd be so stinking lazy, so ignorant, and it would really be horrible.

So what's the alternative? The alternative is we ask God to help us and sometimes there silence, so we have to think it through ourselves. And the result of that is that sometimes we are going to come to different conclusions. You know what, we're all OK with that. Different ideas challenge us, they make us think even more. Diversity is a strength, and we need to learn how to be tolerant. So I think God allowing it to be so ambiguous is a great gift to humanity.

> And how do you decipher what the fundamentals are compared to what’s dogma? Personal intuition?

The nonnegotiables are taught to us in the Bible. You can't really call yourself a Christian unless you believe in such things as:

• God exists.
• God is holy. God’s holiness is not a separate attribute but the result of the sum total of all of his attributes—including but not limited to his sovereignty, omniscience, love, and righteousness.
• Jesus is God (Jn. 10.30).
• Jesus was crucified, dead, and buried and rose again, according to the Scriptures (1 Cor. 15.3-4).
• There is salvation only in Jesus Christ (Acts 4.12).
• We have one objective: salvation (both for ourselves and others).
• A core of objective moral principles based on the nature and character of God.
• The powerful example of Christ that can change human behavior for the better.
• The Bible is God’s revelation of Himself.
• Baptism (of some kind, according to various traditions). Heb. 6.2.
• The future physical resurrection of the dead (Heb. 6.2).
• Eternal judgment (of some kind, according to various interpretations of Scripture). Heb. 6.2.

You can't find a Christian who doesn't subscribe to all of these, because if someone doesn't, he or she is not a Christian. They are defining criteria.

> many of the “dogma” you guys disagree on cause many people to turn away from Christianity.

We can't deny the truth. We're not trying to be popular, though we strongly admit that people should want to know the truth. But we all know that's not true either. I mean, look at what is going on right now with the COVID crisis and the conspiracy theories. No matter what side you're on, it's hard to say that people want to know the truth. A lot of times people just want to believe what they want to believe and see what they want to see; on the other hand sometimes people don't want to be bothered with the truth, they just to live their lives in ignorant and apathetic bliss.

The Bible teaches, and it has been proven to be true, that many people will reject Christianity, and for many different reasons. We don't bend what we believe to be true to make it more palatable. By definition, truth is narrow (2+2=4 and no other of the infinite possible numbers). If you refuse to accept the truth and turn away from it, I'm not going to say, "Who cares about truth. Come back. Let's just love each other." No, it has to be truth AND love.

[Drako]

This really hits it on the head.

I mean, sure, there are the LARPers even in Christianity, but at the end of the day, Christians are going to disagree like anyone else and in anything else. We're each our own individual being, no matter what we otherwise may believe.

[Deb]

How do you determine which are the important things and which are the things you can be wrong about? For example you list LGBTQ as something people can differ about, but if it turns out that homosexual sex was a sin, then wouldn't preaching that it was good and right be a sin? In Revelation, one of the churches in Asia was condemned for allowing a woman to teach that fornication was a good thing. God seemed to really not like that at all. Fornication was something forbidden to all the gentiles in Acts 15. If you're opinion on LGBTQ involves promoting, supporting, or condoning fornication, I would think you'd be in for a bad time with God.

[jimwalton]

We all do our best (I should hope) to study well and do our absolute best to discern truth. It's a fundamental quest of humankind: I need to find out what is true, subscribe to it, and live that way. I study very deeply, converse widely, read voraciously, and try to be as objective as possible. Hopefully we all do that (though I think that's a bit optimistic and ideal on my part, but I've always been an optimist kind of person. Our current media and political environment is working hard to knock that right out of me, though ).

> For example you list LGBTQ as something people can differ about, but if it turns out that homosexual sex was a sin, then wouldn't preaching that it was good and right be a sin?

Many churches do preach that it is a sin, and I believe that the Bible teaches unequivocally that it is a sin. And if it's true that it's a sin (as I believe), then yes, it would be sin for preachers and churches to teach that it's good and right. We are all accountable for our thoughts and actions. If I'm wrong, I'll face the consequences of that. If someone else is wrong, they will the face the consequences.

> In Revelation, one of the churches in Asia was condemned for allowing a woman to teach that fornication was a good thing.

Yes, Revelation 2.20. She is rebuked (2.21) and called to repentance, but refused. She will be accountable to God not only for her false teaching but also for misleading others (2.22).

> God seemed to really not like that at all

God doesn't like whatever is not true, whatever doesn't lead to holiness, and whatever interferes with a person's relationship with Him.

> Fornication was something forbidden to all the gentiles in Acts 15.

Correct. Acts 15.29. But it was forbidden to Jews also. In this case it was a letter to the Gentiles, and that's why Gentiles are specifically mentioned.

> If you're opinion on LGBTQ involves promoting, supporting, or condoning fornication, I would think you'd be in for a bad time with God.

I agree with this statement also.

[Rogue One]

What Jim said. All of that.

[Deb]

...so why do you say it's okay to differ on LGBTQ then?

[jimwalton]

I say that because the position a Christian takes about LGBTQ will not ultimately put someone in heaven or keep them out. Our salvation is based on the essentials (there is a God, Jesus is God, salvation is by a relationship with Jesus, etc.). Those are the core things that actually will keep you in a relationship with God or prevent one.

I am solidly convinced that the Bible teaches that same sex relationships are displeasing to God, do not reflect his holiness and righteousness, and are sin. So are many other things. It's not sin that keeps person out of heaven, even though our sins grieve God. If we have a relationship with Him, and we confess our sins and turn away from them, those sins are forgiven. It's no different with same-sex relationships. LGBTQ is not the criteria for heaven or hell. Even though I think that any Christian who approves of LGBTQ is disregarding the clear teaching of the Bible, there are many things that Christians believe and do that disregard the clear teaching of the Bible—but these things affect our relationship with God and our reward in heaven, not whether we get there or not. Does that help? If not, ask again and I'll try again.

When it comes right down to it, I have to focus on the essentials and learn to be tolerant about our differences.