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[Graham Cracker]

Fair I do need more info, but my observations off of what you've already said is that your moral outlook seems to be superseded by your political outlook when it comes down to how you offer your vote/support. You willingly admit this man is a pretty clear cut embodiment many evils, yet you support him. Thus my original confusion of the whole evangelical movement backing him no matter what moral atrocity he does. I assume you will support him in 2020? It's funny how much he honestly pairs with scriptural text regarding the anti christ. He's got you fooled. You just don't know it yet.

[jimwalton]

> my observations off of what you've already said is that your moral outlook seems to be superseded by your political outlook when it comes down to how you offer your vote/support.

Again, not true. How many times do I have to correct you to show you that you are creating a caricature of me in your own mind and assuming prejudices that are simply false?

> You willingly admit this man is a pretty clear cut embodiment many evils, yet you support him.

Someone is going to be the president. This past round, and possibly in this future round, we didn't have good choices. Both candidates were in a moral toilet (both DJT and HRC qualified in spades there), but one candidate would enact mostly reasonable policies (DJT) while the other candidate would wreak sheer policy havoc on the country (HRC). I chose the immoral idiot who would somehow create some good rather than the immoral idiot who would have been utterly disastrous.

> my original confusion of the whole evangelical movement backing him no matter what moral atrocity he does.

I don't speak for the evangelical movement. I frankly don't understand the evangelicals backing him the way they do, but you seem to be lumping me in with them because of my label. That's where you keep making your mistake. Evangelicals are not monolithic, just so you know.

> I assume you will support him in 2020?

It depends who the candidates are. At this point I think the DNC is going to figure out a way to disqualify Biden because of his shrinking mental acuity. The poor man seems to have dementia. We'll see who they bring to the table, and then I'll decide.

> It's funny how much he honestly pairs with scriptural text regarding the anti christ.

I study these things quite deeply. I've had conversations with others about this, and the theory of DJT as antichrist only squares with part of Scripture, not all of it. At least, at the present time, he doesn't fit the bill. If you want to talk about it more, we can. Give me your list and the accompanying Scriptures, and I'll be glad to discuss it with you. I'm always open-minded about these things and willing to learn more.

There are many more who think Pope Francis is the antichrist. I've had that conversation with many, also, and he also is missing too many puzzle pieces for the time being to qualify.

Most people I talk to now seem to think that the antichrist may be alive now but is still in the shadows, waiting for the right time to emerge. The Internet is stirring with information, but the thought is that the way is being prepared for his introduction and we don't yet know who he is. There are new posts every day as people watch, critique, and evaluate.

> He's got you fooled. You just don't know it yet.

Don't be so naive and deprecatory. You've misunderstood just about everything about me in the past 3 conversational exchanges, so you shouldn't rest confident in this assessment of me, either.

So let's talk about the case for DJT as the antichrist. Give me your list of traits aligned with their biblical texts about the antichrist. I'd love to have this conversation. I'll presume I'm safe in assuming you've studied the Scriptures and the politics. Let's have it!

[Graham Cracker]

Others get it right, not just about anti Christ but how you should offer trump zero support considering the following...

Christian ethics and Donald Trump's neo fascist ideology are incompatible. Those who endorse Trump's actions are turning their backs on Jesus and the Bible's teachings.

Donald Trump ordered police to fire on peaceful protesters the other day before waving a Bible for a photo op. What made it worst was that he didn't just fire on peaceful protesters. But priests inside the Church he was in(St John's Episcopal) to clear them out. This man in no way defends Christian values and the people saying he does are selling out for his cult of personality. I argue this on religious grounds for the following reasons:

(i) Humility is a Christian virtue. The Bible condemns the arrogant

• Trump is one of the most narcissistic presidents in history. His narcissism and egotistical are unbelievably off the charts. Humility is one of the virtues of the Christian life. St Paul states as Christians we are to "clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience"(Colossians 3:12)
  
• The scripture also has many condemnations of the arrogant and proud. Proverbs states "the fear of the Lord is hatred of evil. Pride and arrogance and the way of evil and perverted speech I hate"(Proverbs 8:13). It also says "In arrogance the wicked persecute the poor-let them be caught in the schemes they have devised"(Psalm 10:2). Which describes the Trump presidency in a nutshell.

(ii)Trump is a deeply immoral and scandal ridden man. That goes against Biblical principles

• Trump in his personal life in addition to being arrogant is deeply immoral. He has 24 rape allegations against him. In his public life he has been involved in multiple scandals from businesses under constant investigation, to the Russiagate stuff and the Ukrainegate stuff.
  
• Biblical principles call out leaders(political and religious) that are deeply corrupt. When David engaged in scandalous behaviour in 2 Samuel 11-12 the prophet Nathan quickly called him out. In the Book of Micah condemns the leaders of Jerusalem who's "rulers give judgement for a bribe, its priests teach for a price, its prophets give oracles for money"(Micah 3:11).

(iii) Trump's racist rhetoric regularly targets immigrants and migrants. Which is unbiblical

• Trump has said racists things like Mexicans are criminals and rapists. He has tried to ban Muslims from entering America. He has sent Troops to the border to target migrants. None of this is Biblical thinking.
  
• In the scriptures it says "When an alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself for your were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God"(Leviticus 19:33-34)
  
• In Deuteronomy it commands "You shall not deprive a resident alien or an orphan of justice; you shall not take a widow's garment in pledge. Remember that you were a slave in Egypt and the Lord your God redeemed you from there; therefore I command you to do this"(Deuteronomy 24:17-18)

(iv)Trump's ideology is centred on white supremacy. Which is also unbiblical

• The scriptures teach that "God created humankind, in his image, in the image of God he created them, male and female he created them"(Genesis 1:27). Everyone regardless of race is made in the image of God. The scriptures also teach "There is no longer Jewish nor Gentile, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male nor female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus"(Galatians 3:28). In in Christ racial distinctions are broken down.
  
• Jesus, when asked the meaning of "love your neighbour" tells the famous Parable of the Good Samaritan(Luke 10:25-37). The Samaritan man famously helps the Jewish man on the side of the road. Samaritans and Jews at the time were hostile enemies for religious and racial reasons. And yet the Samaritan transcends the borders of race to help his fellow human being.
  
• In Numbers 12 Moses marries a Cushite woman(Cush is in Africa) and as a result Miriam mocks Moses. Because Miriam mocks Moses God punishes her with a skin disease. God punishes anti black racism in that instance. Trump is guilty of fueling anti black racism through his rhetoric and speech which inspired the killer of George Floyd.

This should be obvious to people but there has been a cult of personality around Trump. And part of the fuel people use for that is religion. The Religious Right, founded in the 70s, has pretty much delivered the message of Jesus over to a right wing political ideology in an idolatrous manner. And the culmination of that is Donald Trump, who received 81% of the evangelical vote. In doing this and going along with his racist, corrupt and scandalous regime they have pretty much sold out Jesus and in some cases become spiritual Judases. It is a racist, neo fascist government Trump is running with the backing of what I consider to be right wing clerical fascists that have nothing to do with the actual teachings of Jesus.

[jimwalton]

These comments don't take us anywhere in the discussion. I readily agreed that DJT was a perverse and immoral man. But Hillary was also deeply immoral, abysmally corrupt, and in my opinion, criminal (destruction of evidence, obstruction of justice, and racketeering, to name a few).

I have no argument that DJT's ethics are inimical to biblical teachings. So were HRC's, so we had to choose. Someone was going to be president. I've made my position clear, so the information in this post doesn't lead us anywhere in the conversation. I agree that DJT is morally repugnant and separated from biblical principles.

The question at hand, which you didn't even address, was: "Give me your list of traits aligned with their biblical texts about the antichrist." You said "It's funny how much he honestly pairs with scriptural text regarding the anti christ." That's what I was wanting to hear from you. I know the man (DJT) is a moral cesspool. I only supported him because HRC was worse.

[Graham Cracker]

No, you voted for him because a (R) in front of his name and nothing else. I hope your happy with Trumps America. We are the most divided ever, he doesn’t even attempt at bringing unity or peace. Evangelicals are a dime a dozen and can be bought by any snake oil sales man as long as they claim their Christians. You say Hilary was worse but behavior has nothing to do with it. Think America’s great again yet? Take a look around.

[jimwalton]

> No, you voted for him because a (R) in front of his name and nothing else

You are welcome to your own opinions, but you are not welcome to your own facts. Once again you are showing your prejudice and judgmentalism. I told you why I voted for him; my assessment of my motives and reasons are more accurate than your opinion of my motives and reasons, especially since you don't know me.

> I hope your happy with Trumps America.

There are parts I'm happy with and parts that I'm very disturbed about. "The State of the Union" is never all or nothing; it's always a matter of degrees and factors all along the continuum. There are things about America that make it the best place in the world to live. There are also very disturbing things about America that are in desperate need of change. There are also evil things about America that need to be eradicated, like racism and sex trafficking, to name two obvious ones.

> We are the most divided ever, he doesn’t even attempt at bringing unity or peace.

We are, yes, but there are many many participants to blame for that disunity.

> Evangelicals are a dime a dozen and can be bought by any snake oil sales man as long as they claim their Christians.

Well, this is quite derogatory, but you are welcome to your opinion. I have some opinions myself about certain demographic groups, but I will keep those to myself at this particular time.

> You say Hilary was worse but behavior has nothing to do with it.

Hillary was abominable from many perspectives. Her behavior has EVERYTHING to do with it. Her behavior is what makes her abominable, just as DJT's behavior makes him abominable.