Board index ‹ LGBT: Gays, Lesbians, Bisexual, Transgender, and Homosexuality

[Baza]

Being transgender has nothing to do whatsoever with your sexual orientation, most trans women still like women after transition so that’s not gay in gods or yer eyes. So where is transgender in the Bible,? And I ain’t talking about clothing which has nothing to do with trans, and yes God made them male and female in the beginning, but we all know that was before the fall of man. Now god says there will be neither slave nor free, Jew nor gentile, male or female for we r all one in Christ Jesus!

[jimwalton]

Glad to talk. I put transgender and gay in the same category because that's what is done by those who are part of those groups, namely LGBTQ+. It seemed to me that it was how those in these categories chose to self-identify.

Where is transgender in the Bible? It's not there because the "technology" (hormone therapy, surgery, etc.) didn't exist. These are techniques of our modern world that were not part of the ancient world.

The Bible does, however, teach about maintaining gender distinctions (Dt. 22.5).Though transvestism was part of the ancient world, such blurring of gender boundaries was seen to violate order (an important paradigm in the ancient world and in ancient Israel).

You say that God making them male and female was before the Fall, and that's obviously true, but nowhere does the Bible rescind those gender categories or speak of any others. Male/female distinctions are maintained through all of Scripture.

When God says there is to be no slave or free, male or female, etc., it is speaking about how salvation is available the same to all. The salvation offered by God was not just for men, for freemen, or for the Jew. It was for all. You can't take this verse to claim that God is removing gender distinctions.

Glad to keep talking if you wish.

[Baza]

I already messaged u. And I’m trans, and I’m a Christian, so r u saying I can’t be a Christian because I’m trans?

[jimwalton]

It is not my place to judge. It is my place to teach the Bible as honestly and accurately as possible. Where the Bible doesn't take a stand, I don't take a stand; where the Bible does take a stand, I stand with the Bible. But I don't judge people.

What I'm saying is that you must study the Bible as open-mindedly and as thoroughly as possible, and if you are dedicated to follow what the Bible says, then you follow it.

The Bible doesn't say anything about transgenderism because such a choice did not exist in the ancient world. They did have expressions of transvestism, and the Bible says God does not approve. It doesn't explain why, but there are other verses in the Bible where the text warns against gender confusion and teaches to maintain sexual distinctions. In biblical days, gender confusion was considered to be a destabilizing element in society. It was also perceived as a rejection of God's created order.

We can talk about these things more.

[Baza]

no he’s saying gender does not matter to him in heaven especially we probably won’t even have a gender in heaven. U didn’t really answer anything, except prove it’s not in the Bible. That’s not true at all, no slave nor free Jew nor gentile male or female is exactly what it says, it’s not saying what u r trying to make it say. Those things will not exist.

[jimwalton]

Thanks for the conversation. The text in Galatians 3 is all about who is in Christ and who is not based on whether the old covenant is still in effect or whether it has been fulfilled by Christ and superseded by the new covenant (3,.19). He is talking about who gets to inherit salvation (3.18). it does not come by the law (3.21) but rather by grace through faith (3.22-24). He says in v. 26 that everyone in Christ Jesus is a child of God, and that is his point. Whether slave or free, male or female, Jew or Gentile, if you are in Christ you are a child of God. He is not even getting close to making a statement about gender acceptance.

And who says we won't have gender in heaven? The angels don't have gender; that's all we know about that one. There is no biblical text that says or hints that we will have no gender in heaven. If you know of one, I'd be glad to discuss it with you.

In Gal. 3.28, Paul is saying that the common points of discrimination and hostility in their culture (slave or free, Jew or Gentile, male or female) have no pertinence to salvation. When it comes to salvation, there are no categories of advantage or disadvantage. It is open to al equally and on the same basis. That's Paul's point.

[Baza]

and trans people don’t put themselves in that category that was a few people who came up with that it has nothing to do with actually trans people unless they say they r a part of it. So most trans aren’t gay that’s a fact.

[jimwalton]

Thank you for clarifying that. Somebody should get the "T" out of LGBTQ, then, but I know these things have a life of their own.

And just for the record, I wasn't claiming that trans are gay. But thank you for clarifying that as well.

[Baza]

How is that saying there will be salvation to us all that verse is not saying that, it’s saying god doesn’t have slave or free people or poor or rich, and Jews won’t be special and better then gentile and he will not see gender any longer. That’s obvious. U can argue till the cows come home but that completely obvious.

[jimwalton]

Paul is talking about how people get to Heaven, not about anyone's status IN Heaven. He is not saying there aren't these things in heaven, though that may or may not be true. What he is talking about is what restrictions and conditions there are to being a child of God (law or faith, grace or works) The point is that in Jesus Christ there are no race or national distinctions, and sex rivalry and class differences disappear.