Board index ‹ Marriage

[Seraph]

May a Christian couple without friends, family or a church community, become married (in a NT sense) by praying and promising together before God?

No modern, secular Marriage Certificate.

No service in a man made building.

No priest, pastor or intercessor; just the couple.

If not, why? The Bible doesn't demand anything from modern marriage in order for a man to leave his mother and father and to have intercourse and become one with a woman who is now his wife.

[jimwalton]

I notice in the Bible that a wedding is always a legal, community affair. Divorce (Dt. 24.1-4) requires a legal certificate. Marriages involved bride prices, dowries, family pledges and commitments. The NT is no different. Jesus refers to certificates of divorce (Mt. 5.31). He went to an elaborate LEGAL community wedding (John 2). When Jesus discussed divorce in Mt. 31, there were legal aspects to it that were not to be ignored. Marriage and divorce were never a matter of just being together as friends, praying, and making promises.

> No modern, secular Marriage Certificate.

No one in our culture would consider taking a large step of commitment (buying a house, buying a car, loans, mortgages, getting a job) without filling out the necessary paperwork and making sure the commitment was legitimate and accountable. Next time you want to take out a $100K loan, just try saying to the people, "Oh, we don't need any paperwork. We're friends, right?" See how that plays in Dodge.

Yet why do we treat something as sacred as marriage so cavalierly?

These laws and paperwork are made to PROTECT people. The design is to legitimize and create an accountability structure, both legally and socially.

[Seraph]

Which laws are you talking about? Mosiac Law for the Hebrew people or modern secular laws concerning marriage?

One is obsolete after being abused for centuries by the Jewish people whom Jesus called stubborn regarding the divorce certificates you refer too. The other allows for transgender and homosexual marriages and protects them, shredding Romans 1 and Jesus' one man one woman design for marriage.

[jimwalton]

> Which laws are you talking about? Mosiac Law for the Hebrew people or modern secular laws concerning marriage?

Both. My point was that marriage in biblical days as well as in our day have never been grab a partner, say a prayer, make a private promise, and it's a done deal. Marriage in the biblical culture always had legal issues involved (dowry, bride price), certificates in the case of divorce, and cultural ceremonies (traditional actions in front of members of the wider community. Marriage has always been recognized as more than grab, kiss, and run.

And in our culture it's no different. There are legalities, social recognition through traditions, community witnesses, etc.

> One is obsolete after being abused for centuries by the Jewish people whom Jesus called stubborn regarding the divorce certificates you refer too.

Jesus was trying to restore some semblance of order and integrity to marriage dissolution. That doesn't make anything obsolete except the school of thought that says divorce can happen for any and every reason just because the man says so. That one SHOULD be obsolete, and Jesus spoke against it.

> The other allows for transgender and homosexual marriages and protects them, shredding Romans 1 and Jesus' one man one woman design for marriage.

This is a change of subject. We weren't talking about trans or same-sex marriage. You were specifically talking about "Christian marriage" and mentioned "a man ...and...woman...wife." It's my position that nothing shreds Romans 1, so I don't really know what you're talking about here.