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[Useful Revolt]

I dont mean for this to sound nasty in any way, were all children of God I just want to know something. Why do you chose being a christian instead of catholic? Where the Catholic church is the one Jesus started and our practices are traditions made by him?

[jimwalton]

I honestly don't mean this to sound nasty, but you need to brush up on your Bible study, history, and theology.

Jesus didn't start the Catholic Church. Jesus mentioned the Church only once (Matthew 16.18) as something He would do in the future. Under His headship, the Church was started by the Apostles under the power of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2). The Church that was started is called the Apostolic Church or the early Church. Only later in history does what we now call the Catholic Church evolve from the Church growing in the Roman Empire.

Some of the practices and traditions of the Catholic Church were started by Jesus, such as the Eucharist. But a lot of what Catholics teach (indulgences, theology of Mary, Purgatory, relics, papal infallibility, etc.) did not have its source in Jesus. These were added later by popes. Other practices, such as baptism, were also not started by Jesus. Jesus never baptized anyone, nor taught the necessity of baptism. Our understanding and practice of baptism came from the Apostles and the writings of Paul.

I'm a Protestant rather than a Catholic (both groups are Christians, by the way) because I think that Protestant teaching is biblical and that Catholic teaching is not. Some elements of Catholic theology that are not biblical:

• “Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.” (Catechism of the Catholic Church). In practicality, the Catholic Church sets herself above Scripture in rank of authority.
• Salvation by faith AND ALSO good works
• Eternal life is attained through Christ AND ALSO the sacraments
• The immaculate conception of Mary, her assumption into heaven, her role as co-redemptrix (believed only by some Catholics)
• Purgatory
• Veneration of relics
• Indulgences
• Invocation of the saints
• Infant baptism
• The infallibility of the papacy in their official, doctrinal statements
• The sacraments. Biblically, there are only two ordinances (baptism and the Lord's Supper), and they are ordinances, not sacraments.
• Magisterium
• The Mass as a sacrifice
• The truth and authority of the Apocrypha
• Extreme unction

[Scape211]

Jim - I largely agree with much of what you have put forth regarding Catholicism. I struggle with areas of its doctrine, historical/biblical relevance, and practices. However, do you think they are reconcilable or would still fall under what many consider mere Christianity? I would assume so as you label them both Christians, but I was just curious. Part of me wonders how many lines they are crossing with regard to added practices by human authority or interpretations I do not agree with.

Also, I frequent many theological Youtube channels and one I have recently appreciated is Trent Horn's Channel called The Council of Trent. Here is a link if you have time to check it out (not like any of us ever have time): https://www.youtube.com/c/TheCounselofTrent

I personally think he handles various objections made by Protestants better than most.

[jimwalton]

Scape, I would love to discuss this with you, but you'll have to be more clear. When you ask, "do you think they are reconcilable?" are you talking about Protestants and Catholics being reconciled with each other, Protestant theology and Catholic theology finding a blending point, or are Catholics reconciled to God as Protestants are?

As an attempt to jump at your question, I think there are many many Catholics who are not true Christians, but mere religious actors. I would also say the same for many many Protestants. The ranks of both camps are rife with pretenders, posers, hypocrites, and outright renegades and rogues, as Jesus prophesied (The Parable of the Weeds: Mt. 13.24-30, 36-43).

Will Catholic and Protestant theologies ever merge into a biblical unity? Unfortunately, I have no hope for such a move; one would have to cease to exist as an institution.

Are Catholics reconciled to God as Protestants are? Yes. It's the biblical process of repentance, salvation by grace through faith, not of works, redemption, and then living a changed life.

[Scape211]

Are Catholics reconciled to God as Protestants are? Yes. It's the biblical process of repentance, salvation by grace through faith, not of works, redemption, and then living a changed life.

This answers what I was talking about regarding the idea of being reconcilable so I think you answered my question. I know each is Christian and each can have religious actors as you put it (good term). However, I always wondered how far over the line some strong Catholic traditions have when thinking of things like church/scripture authority, eternal life through sacraments, infallibility of the papacy, etc. Most of it steers pretty close to where human authority can overstep the biblical to me and has always been a cause for concern.

That said, we all know humans can interpret the bible incorrectly and could easily be in a position of authority in any Christian setting so human authority can corrupt both ways. It all leads back to how we deal with the evidence and interpret the scripture ourselves and hold true to that.

[jimwalton]

Myself being a Protestant, it's obvious that I find biblical problems in Catholic theology and practices, including, as you have said, Church tradition having as much or more authority than Scripture, sacramentalism, and papal infallibility, among others. Such beliefs, in my theology, are incorrect, if not in some cases heretical. But I'm a Protestant, so obviously I believe differently.

You're quite right that all humans can interpret the Bible incorrectly. I sincerely wish that the Holy Spirit would make it so that all true believers interpret it the same way and without flaw, but that's manifestly not the way the HS works in us, much to (I believe) our detriment and the detriment of the Church and Christianity. We must all be as learned, discerning, wise, and humble as we interpret and handle God's Word.

[Scape211]

I too wish the Holy Spirit would give us perfect interpretation, but sadly that's not how it works. I have been doing a study on the Holy Spirit and find it quite interesting. The Holy Spirit is so often downplayed and misunderstood by us all. I mean we all know its part of the God-head but most know little else. I think part of unleashing its power (including discernment) has to do with how well we submit to His authority in all areas of our life. Simple to say, but not to do honestly.